ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½

This event was recorded on Tuesday, 19 November 2024 at the University’s Whitworth Hall and is the fourth and final live instalment of the Talk 200 lecture and podcast series. In contrast to the preceding three Talk 200 live events, this was a live podcast episode, centred around a panel discussion rather than a lecture from an individual speaker.

Professor April McMahon, Vice-President for Teaching, Learning and Students at ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½, was joined by Professor Duncan Ivison, the University’s President and Vice-Chancellor; alumna and former General Secretary of our Student’s Union Naa Acquah; and Management student and scholarship recipient William McArthur to discuss the University’s commitment to supporting students from all backgrounds.

The panel looked back to the University’s origins and its fundamental belief in education without barriers and how, 200 years later, those values are as important as ever. Established as a radically progressive institution that did things differently, we are today committed to understanding our history – both celebrating our achievements and working to repair any inequalities. Our experts considered how we strive to deliver equitable, affordable student experiences and provide access to career experiences that are truly transformative.

Find out more about:

• Teaching and learning excellence at Manchester
• Manchester Access Programme (MAP)
• Widening participation
• Equity and Merit
• Our history

Duncan, we've got a huge legacy at ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½ in terms of invention, original thought, inclusivity and social responsibility. At the moment you're taking all that history and tradition that the University has, and you're using it to try to help us and support us to configure our new strategy for Manchester 2035.

What do you think student success and student inclusion are going to look like in 2035?

One way I've tried to think about this question and put it to the colleagues here is thinking about not only the sort of university we want to be. Desire is one thing, but also, what's the university we need to be right now. That is an objective sort of claim. And I think one way I'm trying to come at this is by asking, what will the great 21st century universities look like? What do they need to be?

Great 21st century universities will have students at the heart of what they are and who they are and what they do. And so, students need to be at the heart of our university by 2035. But what does that mean? I think in terms of student inclusion, great 21st century universities are going to harness their resources to address the great challenges of the future.

Whether it's in social care, whether it's in business and finance. Our social license to operate is going to be tied to our ability to do that. So how do we prepare our students to be the leaders of the future? How do we prepare students to go out into a world defined by artificial intelligence, geopolitical disruption, by the challenges that our world will be facing, the environment and deep social disadvantage, but also characterised by incredible opportunities.

Student success is going to be for me that we will produce the great leaders of tomorrow, but not just any kind of leader. I mean a leader that has not just the sort of, you know, it's learned something. I mean, content is important, but more importantly, what kind of skills do they need? And this is, I guess, this strategic discussion we're having now, what kind of skills do we think our students need, what will define student success in terms of the skills they acquire?

The character that they're able to develop? For example, we're living in a very turbulent time. So, we're thinking a lot about how we help our students have those difficult conversations about hard issues on our campus. How do they develop their skills to be thoughtful, critical, but also empathetic human beings? And how do they take that on as the community?

For me, the student success part is really important. It's probably one of the most important things we will do as an institution. And that's also tied to the research environment we provide them. So, we're thinking a lot about that. And for me, it's tied to them as future leaders. Given the privilege of that we all have in being here and then quickly on the sort of student inclusion side.

Well, we just simply will not solve the problems the world faces unless we open ourselves up to greater parts of our community than we do now. We just simply will not be able to tackle those problems. For me diversity and inclusion are not just a sort of moral principle, but it's also a practical one, which is we're just not taking advantage of extraordinary talent and perspectives and insight that our community brings to bear on those problems.

I think great 21st century universities will also be deeply porous, open, welcoming institutions. That's going to be a big challenge for us because universities are kind of born like exclusive kinds of institutions. So how do we crack that open?

We as a university, we put a major financial contribution every year into student support. Over £20 million a year into scholarships and bursaries. But we can't make the impact that we would really like to all on our own. So, we're talking with friends, supporters, prospective and actual donors about supporting us on that journey. And part of that is through what we're calling the Student Access and Success Fund.

Can you help us to understand what kind of impact we want that fund and that involvement of donors to make?

Sticking with the theme of great 21st century universities, I think great universities are also great philanthropic organisations, and that's about connecting the people who care passionately about the things we do, with the support they can provide us in achieving our mission.

The dream is no student should be prevented from coming to ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½ on the basis of financial need. My dream is that that's entirely removed as a barrier to our university. I would love us to become the first British university, or the first university in the UK, that offered genuinely, what they call needs blind support for our students where finance is absolutely removed from the equation.

Now, we're not there yet, but one really important step along that way is to build on the programmes we have, including the access programme. And we've had unbelievable support from many of our donors and partners to do that. But I think a big challenge for us now is to articulate the importance, a partnership in delivering this because there's only so much support government will be able to provide as much as we’d like to provide more.

I think students, frankly, to be a bit controversial, are probably providing about right. Or they're probably providing almost too much, we can have a debate about that. The University, as you said, almost £20 million, but how do we actually create an environment in which financial need is removed from the equation as to whether a student decides to come study with us?

It should be based on, you know, do you have the ambition and desire? And potential rather than can I afford it? And that has to do with living costs. It has to do with accommodation. That has to do with tuition, obviously, as well. So that's the dream. And I think the programmes we have are a great start.

But we need to go much, much further.

Thank you very much. I think that's an ambition we can get behind isn't it.

Will. How did you get here? What was your journey to university? How have you ended up sitting up here in the fabulous but slightly bonkers surroundings of the Whitworth Hall? And how did the scholarship funding that you've had help you with that?

As you mentioned before, I'm from Bolton, Greater Manchester, so not too far away. But my whole family is from Manchester. I attribute a lot of that success to them and always pushing me to do well in education. I remember my grandma, who grew up literally five-minute walk away from Moss Side on Claremont Road, always talking about the University and the students walking up and down Oxford Road with the scarves when she was growing up.

She talked about how she wished she had the opportunity to be able to go to higher education. And I think that kind of spurred me on and given the ambition, the drive. I was able to work hard and get good A-levels to come to university. And I had, you know, as we talked about before, the dilemma in terms of finances. I decided to take that leap of faith and was awarded the scholarship, which massively helped me with financially coming to university.

Some of the main things that it helped me with is my internships, which I've done at university, providing accommodation and travel for those, which allowed me to see what I wanted to do my future career and really give me valuable experience. I've actually been awarded a job which I don't think I would have got if I wouldn't have done those internships, with the funding from the University.

And as well, I've started a padel society. I'm on the committee of the padel society. I needed to get a coaching course and equipment and pay the fees. I was able to do that with my scholarship. It's something that I really enjoy. It's a service that we offer to students, we teach them how to play padel, offering them a place to come with their friends.

We've had great engagement from a lot of Spanish and Egyptian students where the sport's big in that country. It's only growing in the UK, but, you know, from students all over the world as well. And hopefully, you know, it's a great thing for them as well to be able to come and enjoy and play a sport that they like.

Thanks so much. And what would you say is the most important? You can have more than one because it's hard choosing between two or three. But what do you reckon are the most important kinds of support? You know, services, kinds of support that the University is offering to students?

No. So, I'd say, as we've touched on before with the financial aspects and before coming to university, but also whilst at university, as we've seen since I've been at university, the cost of living has skyrocketed.

And just to give an example, my rent my for my house has gone up and in private accommodation, renting houses. I was going from £125 a week to £275 a week in the last two years, which is over £2,500 a year, which as a student, you know, doesn't have much money. You know, it's hard to pull £2,500 out of thin air.

So, I think the cost-of-living support and the bursary really enable students who are already here, you know, to help them with the increased cost of living. And I think the alternatives are, you know, working in bars, which, you know, working alongside studies is fine. It offers great experience. But when it's hindering your studies, you know, it's a lot of bars stay open till late and a lot of students that is the only kind of job available.

It can hinder study. So, I think that the cost of living, support offered and the bursaries, really, you know, improving inclusion as well. And I would say for me personally, I think the alumni support network, I mean, it's when you come to university, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do. And to be fair, it wasn't something that I perhaps thought of when I come to university and speaking to alumni.

And I think the opportunity to be able to, you know, go into such a prestigious university with such great alumni, I've been able to speak to them and, you know, going into a career in order, being able to speak to people who've worked for two years in order is invaluable experience. And the careers service that the University offers.

We practice with interviews, etc. I think for me and my friends, you know, that I've spoken to, it's really helped them to get jobs and, you know, help them to push forward in their career off the University.

Thank you very much. Big shout out for the career service there. We'll hang on to that one. Thank you. Now, does that sound familiar?

Aren't there touch points for you with what Will's describing from your own experience?

Yeah, definitely. For me, I think the opportunity to experience other things outside of just, your degree was a big thing for, say, for me, for example, you mentioned I took a semester abroad in university, Singapore. That's one of the reasons I came to Manchester was the opportunity to go and experience something else.

I couldn't afford to take a gap year. I was in the year of between £3,000 and £9,000 fees. And when you have that choice, you take your £3,000 fees and go, and so the opportunity to go somewhere else, experience in your culture, make incredible friends, take a new lens of my degree and it was Religion, Theology with the South Southeast Asia and Politics and Religion.

And it just opened my world up to all these opportunities. And without those things, I was given money to do. So, supported through the process. And I think being able to do that really makes a difference to your horizons. And I, I kind of think about Singapore as a really great gateway to then coming back and experiencing the University, because I would say my first year I wasn't really doing that much.

I was experiencing it, but I wasn't necessarily tapping into all the opportunities that there were. And then from second year, that Singapore experience then was able to do so, which probably led me down the path of doing model United Nations and then going into the Union and then being like, a run for General Secretary. And so actually all those sorts of steps, the opportunity to be able to try something new in a safe environment with the support that if it doesn't work out, you don't like it, that's okay.

You can try something else I think is really important. So that sort of, the things that William has spoken about, I think really do resonate. I do think finance will always be a thing for students. It's expensive to live and actually cost of living only going up and up and the way in which you can financially support someone to have the choices.

To think, actually, I might not take the shift today because I can I need to, you know, do some more revision. I need to actually be able to go to my society event is a really big thing that actually we don't necessarily see the value of in the moment, but looking back, it really makes such a difference.

So, I definitely think those things from ten years apart really still resonate with me.

So let me take you back those ten years. So, you were the first to be, General Secretary of the Students’ Union? That's Union Affairs Officer in today's money, if we've got any Students’ Union folks out there. But you did that for two terms.

What were the big things you were campaigning for? For students? And do you feel this is dangerous territory?

No.

Do you feel we've looked after your legacy since then?

I think so, so the first big thing I was thinking about, and I went back, and I actually read my manifesto and looked at the videos to like, what?

What were the key issues?

I think the first one was bursaries, and was about master's bursaries. So, at that time, it was a very hard threshold to actually receive any funding as a master's student. And of course, it was, you had to pay for it, but actually there was an element around just because someone wants to do a master's, does it mean it's a choice. But it doesn'tmean that you should be excluded from doing so. So that is legacy giving, which I'm happy to see.

But also, I think it's about the opportunities on the campus. So, I was General Secretary at the time of a lot of campus redevelopment. The Students’ Union was a completely different building to what is now the new sort of, Rothwell building, which I've just seen, which looks fantastic, but all just, I guess, concepts at the time and being able to see how that space can be used to influence and support you, students to be able to put on their society events and do all those things I think is a really, really important investment.

And it's really nice to see that that's continued to flourish. And the final thing for me, that was really important at that time was actually about accessible, fair, part-time work because you do want to be able to make extra money, but also the skills that you get from part-time work to be able to manage someone, take your shifts, you know, all the different things. I learned how to be able to get up early. Like I started my student union shift at the cafe at 6am and like I would get myself up and go and know the night before that I need to come home at a certain time. And that's important. That's getting you ready for the world of work.

I have to do it now. And I think being able to have a really good part-time job was really important at that time. I was really lucky. It was at the Students’ Union. It was a living wage employer, but not every student was having that. So being able to have that shock, that one place where, you know, these are good quality jobs, was really important. And I think that's continued as well. So, I'm happy to see that.

Yay. Thank you very much. Now, you've mentioned quite a number of times the importance of societies. And I wonder if you might just reflect briefly on how those have helped set you up for the things that you're doing now. Because often we hear from students, so I should just concentrate on my degree. And we're always saying no, do other things as well.

For me, being involved in societies transformed my career and the life that I live now. So, I joined the United Nations. For those of you who may know about the society, we mock the model, we mock the UN, we all go as countries and debate. I joined it from being in Singapore because I'd never really known about it.

I didn't do in school. I didn't have a clue what it was. And it's bigger in the States and in other countries. And it was the most incredible experience. We would fundraise, get money towards it. And I went to Brussels to do mock United Nations. I went to the UN in New York. I went, I probably never would have.

And so now I work in government, and I look at international treaties and I think about the World Health Organization and, what are we doing in those spaces? And I understand the lingo. I understand the workings of it. We were able to make a relationship. So going out there and meeting people from around the world and delegating with them on this treaty and it's, you know, it's mock.

But the skills that we learned have carried on in all our lives. And I can say that not just for myself, but all those who I did the society with, to carry on and do that. I guess the second part for me was without the UN, I would not have run for General Secretary. There's no two ways about it.

I felt able to take up leadership roles, because I'd been the president of the society and had to organise things and have your committee and bring people together. And without that experience, I don't think I would have run for the role, which then led me to understand a lot more about governance. You get really involved into the University governance and actually being a governance of the University.

All those bits means that I've carried on being a trustee and doing all those sorts of roles throughout my life because I've had the taste of it. And so, I think those are really key in thinking about how I've shaped my career going forward and the areas of work that I've got myself into. It's that, I guess, a little bit of confidence of I think I understand how to navigate this a bit more, and without those experiences, I'm not sure if I would have done it in the same way.

I was the delegation leader for Chad. Ok. And Iran, that was quite interesting actually. So, the secret to success is model UN?

It is, it is, it is.

So I ask you all this actually. But last Will and not first, what do you think students need the University to do more of?

What is it that we could do that we're not doing or not doing enough of? Now?

Yeah, I'll go first. So as research and I think the University offers great, you know, support to students. But I think one thing that I've noticed this year, with doing the Padel Society and getting involved in the sports, is that a lot of students, especially, you know, with the cost of living crisis is finding it harder to pay for the sports memberships.

And we've had to change the pay system to a pay as you go into an in order to account for this. And so I think that, you know, sports offers great things for students outside of the degree, as we're speaking about, you know, for physical, mental health, to meet friends and break down barriers. I think it's very important that, you know, Manchester being a great sporting city as well, that the University kind of pushes this.

I think that, you know, something that it can do is the campus leagues, which are free. And also, you know, you don't have to be I mean, you've got the top sports teams. You have to be like a certain, you know, you have to go free trials, etc. but you can just turn up to the campus that you can play with your friends.

And I think that the organisation of marketing of this, the football that they do well in football, but I think in other sports and to, you know, really get that go in, and create a place where people can go and enjoy themselves with the friends and, you know, make new friends and enjoy sports. I think that's football in Manchester, who you know, and for me, and I think it will always be something that's an issue is supporting students’ health, mental health and wellbeing.

So, what was mentioned about this sport physical side. But I think in this country we do have a mental health crisis. The systems are not there. I work at the Department of Health and Social Care. I can say openly, our mental health system is not where it needs to be. And so, as you're going through a very turbulent time in your life, university, all these things, if the University can really support with mental health and wellbeing, it will set students up for as they go into the work and into different aspects of their life.

And because unfortunately, the system isn't really that the more that can be put into them now, I think will pay dividends going forward. So, if that was an area, I'm sure there's work happening on it. But even more so, I think it should continue even more so.

Thank you, Duncan.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's my job to just listen to those tonight, but I mean, just building on one. 

And Will's point, I mean, I'm quite interested in that challenge of mental wellbeing because we tend to think of mental health in the crisis phase, which is completely appropriate. But I'm quite interested in this idea of, you know, mental health as something we sort of think about in terms of how we construct our programmes and our curriculum, our life on campus.

And, you know, I said earlier, I think one of the big challenges of our time is how do we get people speaking across difference? There's just so much shouting in our culture. There's a lot of anger and hurt in our culture for all kinds of complicated and important reasons. But if universities can't be the places where students learn how to navigate those difficult issues, then who?

Where else? Right? Where else can it happen? So, I'm really interested in how does the University? And I think it's something we do need to do better. How do we think about providing our students with the opportunities, the skills? The place to experiment and fail safely that, you know, sets them up for success in life, but also sets them up to be great leaders who can actually change the world for the better when they leave us.

So that's I mean, I really think that's something, it's a I think that's an exciting agenda. And I'd love Manchester to, to really lead in not just in the UK, in the world because universities are struggling with this right now. And now you're right, I think young people are struggling. And I think we've got to really work together to address that.

So last question from me. And then it's your turn and we will come to you and see if you want to ask a question in the room, or if you've already found some questions in on Slido. All of our Talk 200 bicentenary, lectures and podcasts have asked panels and participants the same question, so I'm not going to let down the slide on the last event.

And it is this. What do you hope that our third century as a university will bring in this area of student success and opening ourselves up to students from all different backgrounds? Who wants to start free for all this?

I'll start. I've been thinking a lot about this question, and I think there's a few things. I think the first thing for me is for students, we're in a different, it's a different time.

I know everyone says that, but for example, I wasn't as big it was there, but it wasn't as big as it is now. You think about how that's entering into the workplace. So really giving students the skills and that they need as they enter this next phase of our society. So, digital skills, they've changed when I was at university, so computer programming is obviously very important.

But that was like the big thing. And actually now there's a whole new shift in that sector. How can we give everyone the skills that they need to navigate that? And then really even broader experiences, the world is global. This University is global. How can you push that even further so everyone truly has a globalised experience while they're in Manchester, I think is the next step.

I think for the third century. Yeah, I think I touched on what Duncan mentioned before about ensuring that, you know, or trying to aim ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½, that students aren't held back for financial, you know, financial situations. I think that in kind of a time when people are worried about the increase in tuition fees etc, I think that universities, you know, offer a place where students can excel and, you know, really come on, as people both inside the course and outside of that course.

And I think that's a valuable asset to society and to, you know, people who need it. And I think that to ensure that, that that role is always there in society, on behalf of university and ÌÇÐÄVlog¹Ù·½ is crucial.

Thank you. Duncan.

I mean, everything they said. And maybe one more thing.

I mean, I do think, you know, student success in the future will be defined in part by our students leaving here, being committed to learning for the rest of their lives. It sounds slightly paradoxical, right? You come to university to learn, you know, to learn. But I think the most powerful thing you can give another human being is the gift of wanting to continue to learn.

Right? That is such a powerful thing. So how do we give our students that desire to keep learning and keep them connected to the University so we can help them keep learning and a whole range of ways, wherever they are in the world, wherever they are in society.

So among all the other wonderful things that Naa will have mentioned, I think that desire to keep learning and to be an advocate for learning and to be an advocate for a world in which understanding and listening and conversation are the sort of defining values that they take into their workplace, or into their families or into their relationships.

I think that's what student success has to look like, in part. Well, if we are delivering all that, we are winning, I reckon, especially by 2035, which is our new salient date.